National Scores Versus ACSI Scores
It is conventional wisdom that private religious school test scores are higher than that of public schools. Have you every wondered what the difference actually was in test scores? I have, and here are the results below for the 5th grade Stanford Achievemnet Test (Tenth Edition). The data below shows the difference between the percentile rankings between the National Averages and the ACSI (Association of Christian Schools International) averages. In other words, your child’s percentile rankings against ACSI schools will be lower by the difference provided.
| Test | Difference |
|---|---|
| Total Reading | 29 |
| Reading Vocabulary | 27 |
| Reading Comprehension | 27 |
| Total Mathematics | 28 |
| Mathematics Problem Solving | 23 |
| Mathematics Procedures | 33 |
| Language | 25 |
| Language Mechanics | 17 |
| Language Expression | 26 |
| Spelling | 20 |
| Science | 29 |
| Social Science | 29 |
| Listening | 28 |
| Thinking Skills | 32 |
| Basic Battery | 28 |
| Complete Battery | 27 |
These rankings are astounding. ACSI students are being taught at an exceptionally higher rate than the national average. What makes it more astounding is that their scores are also included in the national averages. This means that our Public Government school children are performing at a rate of 20 to 30% lower than ACSI schools.
Once again, proof is available to dispell the myth that money will solve the problem. It will not. If money were the issue, then ACSI schools would be providing a lower quality education than Public Government schools. The exact opposite is true; ACSI provide a higher quality education for less money.
If interested, you can search for ACSI Member Schools. We have one located right here in Grayslake as well. Their name is Westlake Christian Academy.
UPDATE:
Here are a couple more links showing the results from Spring 2005 as well:
Do the private religious schools have to accept everyone that applies? Can they accomodate the LD’s that the Government Schools are obligated to accomodate and include in their test scores? Are they required to maintain enrollment of the all the BD’s or can they simply expell them without fear of retribution and litigation?
I believe that the private schools you refer to have the ability to “tweak” their scores with selectivity in enrollment, and as such, I’m not certain your raw data is valid. I’d like to see some demographics in this regard.
Westlake Addmission Policy:
No student will be admitted who:
Shows extremely low academic performance as indicated by a standardized testing program, report cards or the WCA Admissions Assessment Test.
Has failed the most recent grade level prior to application.
Has a “present history” of emotional or disciplinary problems.
Has been suspended or expelled.
Has a court record.
Comes from a non-Christian home – a Christian home being defined as: a home where one or both parents have received Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. (1 Cor. 7: 14)
Has an identified or probable L.D. beyond our scope of expertise.
NOTE: We have a deep concern that every Christian child have an opportunity to have a Christian education, but at our present stage of development, we are unable to commit to meet the needs of all students
http://www.westlakechristian.org/AdmPAndP.htm
This was to be expected. More excuses on why Government Schools aren’t performing as well as Private Schools. There is no introspection and self examination on where the real problem lies. It’s just always somebody else’s fault.
Who said anything about excuses and fault? Julie was resourceful and pointed out a legitimate source of information that shows your data to be possibly inaccurate. You claim the problem is on one side and she constructively shows otherwise. Sure there are problems with the Public Schools, but keep the issues straight.
And you chose not to provide the demographics she suggested which would help put things on a level playing field.
Lennie has posted an update above. This will probably answer any of your questions you have.
Actually, no. They show the scores but don’t address Julie’s observation that the student test groups may not be apples-to-apples.
Your response to my inquiry was rather alarming and defensive. I reviewed the admission policies of a random dozen schools in Illinois listed on the ACSI web link you provided and they were all the same; very selective. I could have posted excerpts, but it seemed a waste as your readers could perform the same exercise.
The bottom line seems quite simple; if you exclude the portions of the student body that perform sub-par, your aggregate test score will be above par. The government schools can’t do that as they have to include everyone. If I’m missing something, please fill me in.
In my opinion, where does it stop? Apples to apples. How about socio-economics? What about skin color? How about the ones who had breakfast that morning of the test? Then if you had all of those things, apples to apples… then it would be the excuse of… they aren’t the same kids! Excuse after excuse. Julie, I have a feeling that anything that Lennie and I said in response would be “alarming and defensive”.
You ARE missing something, Julie. Let’s really draw the bottom line. Bottom line is that these (Private School) children would be in your system had something not failed within the government school system.
Julie, what are you assuming the demographics of private school children really are? What is your definition of “selective”
“Julie, what are you assuming the demographics of private school children really are? What is your definition of “selective”
You are flawed in your thinking, Julie. WCA does not only accept the best of the best. Maybe you should read their policy again. They are quite diverse. If you have any further questions about WCA… then I would suggest you ask them yourself. WCA is only one of thousands of schools that are associated with ACSI across the country.
“It was my understanding from Lennie’s posts that the private schools didn’t require the funding to excel..”
I think you have misinterpreted what Lennie was saying. Let me re-word it so that you can understand. It should read… despite there lack of funding, like public education has, they excel.
Surely, Julie, you cannot think that any private school doesn’t need money? They don’t get our tax dollars like government schools do.
I have some questions, Julie. When you have a challenged student in government school, do they have an Aid that is assigned to them? How many cases can one Aid take? If it depends on the case, break that down for me, please. What if a child is excelling way beyond their years… what would d46 (assuming that you are from d46) do with them? What if they are just really good at Language and normal to challenged in other areas. Then what would they do?
Julie,
Your premise is wrong from the beginning. It appears you believe that all schools teach equally whether government run or private. This premise is false.
Private schools must teach better to compete in the free market with parents. If they did not, they would lose enrollment and eventually go out of business. If they do well, the enrollment increases.
Government schools have no incentive to improve their students academically. They get the taxpayer money no matter what leaving most kids performing at a lower level than those in private schools.
With the 2 models, private schools students become the best, not because they were selected at the start, but because the private school education was better.
Julie said, “However, if a school received government funding, I highly doubt that their admission policy could be as selective and discriminatory as WCA’s.”
Who are you claiming they are discriminating against? African Americans? Hispanics? who?
Julie said, “The true test of the mettle would be the ability to produce those results with a diverse and difficult sample. ”
That is exactly what Lisa was asking for. That is for tax money to follow the child so the parent can choose the school of their choice. Private Schools will have the funding then to expand services to Learning Disabilities (some already do). We can all see your premise is false and private schools better educate.
Again, I do have to ask what you mean by diverse? Are you saying only rich, white kids attend these private schools?
Please do not bait me to make something racial out of a perfectly sincere and non-racial argument. It will not happen. WCA’s policy is one of exclusion; nowhere is it stated who they will take, just who they won’t.
If a private school can produce the result you speak of in this post without funding and without selective, exclusionary admission policies, your premise would be valid.
It’s not competition when one team has to play everyone and the other plays only the most educable. That does not dismiss the quality education they provide; just the false premise of this post.
Julie said, “If a private school can produce the result you speak of in this post without funding and without selective, exclusionary admission policies, your premise would be valid.”
Then answer this, why can’t public schools produce these results when they have the funding? If you would care to help allow vouchers we’d all see the results and find out once and for all. Care to work on that with me?
Julie said, “only the most educable”. I would still like an explanation on who you think these kids are. Are you trying to say only the least educable attend government schools?
When I see words that you write like “discriminatory” and “diverse”, it is hard not to think about the racial overtones in the their meanings. Would you please explain what you do mean if you did not intend any racial overtones?
When a policy is exclusionary, it is discriminatory. When a policy is exclusionary, it limits diversity. The explanation of “who these kids are” is not the issue; who they aren’t is very clear. Read WCA’s admission policy.
If one could filter the government schools test scores the same way the WCA filters admission, the results might be interesting.
Back to your original premise: “It is conventional wisdom that private religious school test scores are higher than that of public schools. Have you every wondered what the difference actually was in test scores?”
As one who abandoned government schools long ago, I never subscribed to such “wisdom” and never felt the need to “wonder” as you did. In fact, it doesn’t appear wise to me. My selection of private schools was always based on the performance of my options. I didn’t really care how they stacked up against the option I had already eliminated.
Please do not take this as license to stray from the point. Your premis is still invalid.
I will just quote from above:
“Your premise is wrong from the beginning. It appears you believe that all schools teach equally whether government run or private. This premise is false.
Private schools must teach better to compete in the free market with parents. If they did not, they would lose enrollment and eventually go out of business. If they do well, the enrollment increases.
Government schools have no incentive to improve their students academically. They get the taxpayer money no matter what leaving most kids performing at a lower level than those in private schools.
With the 2 models, private schools students become the best, not because they were selected at the start, but because the private school education was better.”
Julie,
The only area that you haven’t hit but intentionally seem to be walking around is the religious part of the prerequisite. I’m wondering if you have issues with that but just not saying it? I guess what I’m asking is do you have some kind of chip on your shoulder with this subject?
The reason I ask that is because Lennie and I have debunked your “understanding” of selectiveness. Again… if you have any question about Westlake… you need to call THEM up! If you look again at their policy… it seems to be always talking about extreme situations, grades, etc. What I am reading from their policy is that they are a case by case basis. I DO NOT read the best of the best, although they may turn out such students. (i.e.”
Julie, would you answer some of the questions that have been asked again? You want me to answer every question you put forth, but you selectively choose which questions to answer.
Stick to your argument.
“Once again, proof is available to dispell the myth that money will solve the problem. It will not. If money were the issue, then ACSI schools would be providing a lower quality education than Public Government schools. The exact opposite is true; ACSI provide a higher quality education for less money.”
The test score data proves nothing of the sort. When the samples tested have nothing in common, the outcome is irrelevant. I answer your questions when they apply to the argument. I will not respond to your attempts to make something racial out of this. For that, sir, you should be ashamed.
Julie, let me give you my experience on government vs private schools. My oldest daughter attends Geneva HS, and my youngest daughter attends an ASCI school. When my younger daughter began the 4th grade last year, my government taught daughter looked at her younger sister’s math book and said “They didn’t teach us that until I was in the 6th grade!” My government taught daughter is an honor roll student, taking honors level courses, but I can assure you by the time my ASCI taught daughter reaches the same grade level as my older child, she will surpass her older sister on virtually every level of education. Neighborhood children who are taught at the government school can’t hold a candle to my ASCI child. When I see a neighbor child, who is one grade level above my youngest, unable to master the spelling of basic words like “sorree”, “furget” or “frend” (I am NOT making this up), I wonder why she is going to start the 6th grade this fall. She is not LD, she is merely a by-product of a system that dumbs down the curriculum in order to make sure every child passes to the next grade level, regardless if they are able to read and write. Additionally, the return on investment I am getting for my $5,000 annual cost for my ASCI child is far greater than the ROI on the almost $9,000 that CUSD 304 spends on every child. As a taxpayer I am outraged that this kind of money is being spent and the result is so poor. Perhaps if the government run schools spent less on administrators, like the Superintendent of CUSD 304 who earned $163,968 last year, and more on curriculum then we might not be having this debate over test scores.
Regarding test scores, people who defend the government schools rarely like raw numbers like test scores because they tell the truth. Why not take out the test results of all those LD kids who are supposedly pulling down the average? Take out the test scores of those children who wouldn’t qualify for a private education, and then compare. Then answer would still be the same – ASCI schools do a better job educating children than public schools. I often wonder why defenders of public education don’t try to manipulate test results in that manner. I think the answer is simple – any way you slice it, dice it or twist it, government education falls far short on delivering results.
Thanks Kent…no argument here until you claimed that “scrubbed” scores would produce the same result for ASCI.
From a very recent study comparing public to private schools:
A summary:
http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/dn/education/columnists/jbenton/stories/062705dnmetedcol.4b6a3351.html
An abstract and the study itself:
http://www.ncspe.org/readrel.php?set=pub&cat=126
Comment by Nan — 6/30/2006 @ 4:09 pm
Don’t get me wrong…I have nothing against ASCI schools; I think they serve a very useful purpose and produce fine results. It’s just that “site admin’s” argument (and your implication) won’t hold water relative to the test score comparison.
From the link http://www.ncspe.org/readrel.php?set=pub&cat=126, “This suggests that assessments of charter schools must pay careful attention to the sample population that is being examined.”
This says it all about this study. They have an agenda and that agenda is to discredit the scores of charter schools and private schools. To them, any number showing public schools are behind means they have to change the analysis.
You ask for data…data is provided. The data state that public schools aren’t behind when you you scrub the sample. The WCA can scrub the sample through selective admissions. How is that any different? One might say there’s an agenda there as well. I wouldn’t, though. I simply asked to see a fair comparison and there it is…
As for “discrediting”, I’ve read the analysis and it it no way sets out to discredit; there’s a big difference between “qualify” and “discredit”. One might think you have an agenda…that wouldn’t be true, would it?
Julie and others,
I have finally had a chance to look at the study you have pointed out. I have a few more pages to go, but here is what I have seen so far.
First, let’s look at who this group is.
Henry M. Levin, Director
Professor Levin is the William Heard Kilpatrick Professor of Economics and Education at Teachers College, Columbia University, and the David Jacks Professor Emeritus of Higher Education and Economics at Stanford University.
Clive Belfield, Associate Director
Dr. Belfield is an economist working on education policy, the efficiency of education enterprises and the cost-effectiveness of education. He has undertaken research for the British Government, the European Parliament, and the World Bank.
Chad d’ Entremont, Assistant Director, Dissemination
Mr. d’Entremont is a doctoral candidate in Politics and Education at Teachers College. His primary interest is how ideology informs debates centered on school choice and privatization.
Casandra Gomez Arnon, Project Coordinator
Ms. Arnon has professional experience in higher education administration and the non-profit sector. She has a Masters degree in Art and Art Education from Teachers College.
Greg Elaqua, Research Assistant
Mr. Elacqua will begin his doctoral studies in the Comparative and International Education Program at Teachers College in the Fall of 2006.
Brian Gabele, Research Assistant
Mr. Gabele is a doctoral candidate in the Economics of Education Program at Teachers College.
Heather Schwartz, Iscol Research Fellow for Educational Equity and Policy
Ms. Schwartz is an EdD student in Leadership, Policy and Politics at Teachers College, supported by the Iscol Research Fellowship. She is interested in the connections between schools and neighborhoods.
Munyi Shea , Staff Associate
Ms. Shea supports the administration of the Center. She is a doctoral candidate in the Department of Counseling and Clinical Psychology at Teachers College.
Jessica Simon, Research Assistant
Ms. Simon is a doctoral candidate in Economics of Education at Teachers College.
Elisabeth Thurston, Research Assistant
Ms. Thurston is a doctoral candidate in Politics and Education at Teachers College.
Katy Bulkley, Faculty Associate
Professor, Montclair State University
Jeff Henig, Faculty Associate
Professor of Political Science and Education, Teachers College.
Luis Huerta, Faculty Associate
Professor of Education, Teachers College.
Amy Stuart Wells, Faculty Associate
Professor of Sociology and Education, Teachers College.
You’ll notice a common thread. Most of them work at Teachers College. This fact alone makes the their claim of being non-partisan suspect.
Second, let’s look at the study itself.
From page 5 – “Sample sizes for some private school types were relatively small (ranging from 78-224 schools), and reduced slightly further in the full HLM models (57-203 schools). The participation rate for 4th grade conservative Christian schools, for 8th-grade charter schools, and for “other private”