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	<title>Comments on: Man Refuses to Take Down Vote NO Sign</title>
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	<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/</link>
	<description>Reform Education because Education Mattes</description>
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		<title>By: Lennie</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-562</link>
		<dc:creator>Lennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-562</guid>
		<description>The ethics ruling was that there was evidence of a violation, it just wasn&#039;t enough evidence to convict Dr. Anderson of it. What happened with the flyers was wrong.

Mr. Clements is fighting for freedom of speech.  Wouldn&#039;t you agree that people should have freedom of speech?  I am pretty sure you would.  Wouldn&#039;t you also agree that laws that restrict freedoms like not allowing women the right to vote, or not allowing blacks the right to vote would be bad?  Freedom of speech with political signs is the same thing.  It is a freedom that we have as Americans and any laws that limit that are wrong and should be fought and abolished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ethics ruling was that there was evidence of a violation, it just wasn&#8217;t enough evidence to convict Dr. Anderson of it. What happened with the flyers was wrong.</p>
<p>Mr. Clements is fighting for freedom of speech.  Wouldn&#8217;t you agree that people should have freedom of speech?  I am pretty sure you would.  Wouldn&#8217;t you also agree that laws that restrict freedoms like not allowing women the right to vote, or not allowing blacks the right to vote would be bad?  Freedom of speech with political signs is the same thing.  It is a freedom that we have as Americans and any laws that limit that are wrong and should be fought and abolished.</p>
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		<title>By: carl</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-561</link>
		<dc:creator>carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-561</guid>
		<description>so since the ethics committee decided there was no violation then it&#039;s OK, right? or is that still wrong because it suits you and Mr. Clements can break the laws in winthrop harbor because it suits you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so since the ethics committee decided there was no violation then it&#8217;s OK, right? or is that still wrong because it suits you and Mr. Clements can break the laws in winthrop harbor because it suits you?</p>
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		<title>By: Lennie</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-560</link>
		<dc:creator>Lennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-560</guid>
		<description>No, the school flyer is not free speech.  It is paid for by our tax money.  That is considered election interference.  If the PTO wants to send home a flyer they need to print it themselves without school resources and then distribute it outside the school.  This same process can be followed by those that oppose the referendum.  That is free speech.

As far as breaking laws, the law about political signage would go to court to decide if this is a limitation of Mr. Clements free speech rights.  That is what the courts are for.  I would venture to guess thought that the law would be ruled unconstitutional and Mr. Clements would have been vindicated.  It does not appear that the regulation will be enforced though.  That is the decision for the Mayor and Police Chief to decide, not me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, the school flyer is not free speech.  It is paid for by our tax money.  That is considered election interference.  If the PTO wants to send home a flyer they need to print it themselves without school resources and then distribute it outside the school.  This same process can be followed by those that oppose the referendum.  That is free speech.</p>
<p>As far as breaking laws, the law about political signage would go to court to decide if this is a limitation of Mr. Clements free speech rights.  That is what the courts are for.  I would venture to guess thought that the law would be ruled unconstitutional and Mr. Clements would have been vindicated.  It does not appear that the regulation will be enforced though.  That is the decision for the Mayor and Police Chief to decide, not me.</p>
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		<title>By: carl</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-559</guid>
		<description>so, there are laws we should feel free to break?  which ones are OK with you? Besides the laws in winthrop harbor with regard to political signage? if it&#039;s OK to break those laws, why can&#039;t the PTO send home a flyer? isn&#039;t that free speech, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so, there are laws we should feel free to break?  which ones are OK with you? Besides the laws in winthrop harbor with regard to political signage? if it&#8217;s OK to break those laws, why can&#8217;t the PTO send home a flyer? isn&#8217;t that free speech, too?</p>
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		<title>By: Lennie</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-558</link>
		<dc:creator>Lennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-558</guid>
		<description>Carl, I agree that people in Winthrop Harbor should do their own research.  It is incumbent on them to do so and know the truth.  I am looking at this from my experience with our district and the fact that WH is trying to sneak this through with a special election.

As for our district and its spending, more and more is found all the time.  Remember, the new BOE found over a million dollars to partially restore the programs.

As for the ethics hearings, that is not about stop free speech.  It was about the use of tax money to promote a tax increase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl, I agree that people in Winthrop Harbor should do their own research.  It is incumbent on them to do so and know the truth.  I am looking at this from my experience with our district and the fact that WH is trying to sneak this through with a special election.</p>
<p>As for our district and its spending, more and more is found all the time.  Remember, the new BOE found over a million dollars to partially restore the programs.</p>
<p>As for the ethics hearings, that is not about stop free speech.  It was about the use of tax money to promote a tax increase.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa (Lennie's wife)</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa (Lennie's wife)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-557</guid>
		<description>Carl,

I will address the home school comment only, Lennie can comment on whatever else he wants to.

Home Schooling is the most unselfish kind of education there is. We have made the &lt;b&gt;CHOICE&lt;/b&gt; as you make the choice to publicly educate your children. I gave up &lt;b&gt;EVERYTHING&lt;/b&gt; to stop and educate my children, what you chose not to do. We pay for our children&#039;s education and pay for yours too. What choice do I have in that? I do not have a problem with you publicly educating your children, why do you have such a problem with mine being home schooled? I do not think that home schooling is for everyone. Yet you constantly undermine us and attack me and my husband, personally for home schooling! We care about ALL children&#039;s education and we don&#039;t limit our compassion for just our children. Yet all you seem to care about is your kids. In my opinion, you are willing to even spend other people&#039;s money freely to educate your children. I think that is very selfish. So if what your trying to do is draw a negative picture about Lennie and I, I would set our picture aside of yours any day and then let the people decide.

I think that it is amazing that you &lt;b&gt;KNOW&lt;/b&gt; whether we would ever vote for a tax increase or not. Do you know us personally? No? Well then how would you know what we would vote for or not?

You know what I also find amazing? That you say no one comes and visits this site, yet here &lt;b&gt;YOU&lt;/b&gt; are!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,</p>
<p>I will address the home school comment only, Lennie can comment on whatever else he wants to.</p>
<p>Home Schooling is the most unselfish kind of education there is. We have made the <b>CHOICE</b> as you make the choice to publicly educate your children. I gave up <b>EVERYTHING</b> to stop and educate my children, what you chose not to do. We pay for our children&#8217;s education and pay for yours too. What choice do I have in that? I do not have a problem with you publicly educating your children, why do you have such a problem with mine being home schooled? I do not think that home schooling is for everyone. Yet you constantly undermine us and attack me and my husband, personally for home schooling! We care about ALL children&#8217;s education and we don&#8217;t limit our compassion for just our children. Yet all you seem to care about is your kids. In my opinion, you are willing to even spend other people&#8217;s money freely to educate your children. I think that is very selfish. So if what your trying to do is draw a negative picture about Lennie and I, I would set our picture aside of yours any day and then let the people decide.</p>
<p>I think that it is amazing that you <b>KNOW</b> whether we would ever vote for a tax increase or not. Do you know us personally? No? Well then how would you know what we would vote for or not?</p>
<p>You know what I also find amazing? That you say no one comes and visits this site, yet here <b>YOU</b> are!!!</p>
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		<title>By: carl</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator>carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-555</guid>
		<description>How is Mr. Clements situation so different from Okley &amp; Bruno&#039;s escapade with the Ethics commission that you so heartily supported? I guess that one was OK because it was your side, right?  That makes it OK, right?  You can complain, but the referendum supporters can&#039;t, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is Mr. Clements situation so different from Okley &amp; Bruno&#8217;s escapade with the Ethics commission that you so heartily supported? I guess that one was OK because it was your side, right?  That makes it OK, right?  You can complain, but the referendum supporters can&#8217;t, right?</p>
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		<title>By: carl</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-554</guid>
		<description>Mr. Donaldson:

You&#039;re are absolutely correct; reform is of the utmost importance.  My point was simply that the increase in educational cost is in PERFECT step with the increase in property value and taxes.  Everything goes up; including the cost of education.  Like the seniors on a fixed income, Lennie doesn&#039;t use the public education system (he home schools) so he vehemently opposes any referendum for any reason whether it is warranted or not.

Just because we&#039;re tired of paying the tax, can&#039;t afford it, or don&#039;t directly benefit from a particular taxing body doesn&#039;t mean that institution doesn&#039;t need the funding.  Lennie likes to accuse districts of wasteful or dishonest spending, but hasn&#039;t yet found more than a few thousand dollars that have been improperly spent in his own district.  So now he&#039;s on your case.

Vote no if it&#039;s the right thing for your pocket book.  Vote no if you can&#039;t afford it.  But don&#039;t let this carpet-bagger convince you that your neighbors are all crooks.  Do your own research.

Mr. Donaldson, you asked some questions in your first post that I answered quite honestly...maybe they just weren&#039;t the right questions.  I hope things work out for you and your neighbors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Donaldson:</p>
<p>You&#8217;re are absolutely correct; reform is of the utmost importance.  My point was simply that the increase in educational cost is in PERFECT step with the increase in property value and taxes.  Everything goes up; including the cost of education.  Like the seniors on a fixed income, Lennie doesn&#8217;t use the public education system (he home schools) so he vehemently opposes any referendum for any reason whether it is warranted or not.</p>
<p>Just because we&#8217;re tired of paying the tax, can&#8217;t afford it, or don&#8217;t directly benefit from a particular taxing body doesn&#8217;t mean that institution doesn&#8217;t need the funding.  Lennie likes to accuse districts of wasteful or dishonest spending, but hasn&#8217;t yet found more than a few thousand dollars that have been improperly spent in his own district.  So now he&#8217;s on your case.</p>
<p>Vote no if it&#8217;s the right thing for your pocket book.  Vote no if you can&#8217;t afford it.  But don&#8217;t let this carpet-bagger convince you that your neighbors are all crooks.  Do your own research.</p>
<p>Mr. Donaldson, you asked some questions in your first post that I answered quite honestly&#8230;maybe they just weren&#8217;t the right questions.  I hope things work out for you and your neighbors.</p>
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		<title>By: PDonaldson</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-553</link>
		<dc:creator>PDonaldson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-553</guid>
		<description>Here is a concern &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a concern &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: PDonaldson</title>
		<link>http://educationmatters.us/2005/09/13/man-refuses-to-take-down-vote-no-sign/#comment-552</link>
		<dc:creator>PDonaldson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=256#comment-552</guid>
		<description>Well I do live in Winthrop. Carl, if you use your argument&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I do live in Winthrop. Carl, if you use your argument&#8221;</p>
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