Education PhDs Low GRE Scores
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Do any of you remember Dr. Anderson raving about how many PhDs are now employed by District 46? According to him, this was a major accomplishment. Well, thanks to Gene Expression I now have some very interesting numbers about GRE Test Scores on the 7 major fields of study and other miscellaneous ones. These results are summarized below and the source data here.
For those that need a refresher on GRE check here. Here is a brief paragraph from the source data:
| GRE Program activities include testing, research, publishing, and advisory services. These services are designed to assist graduate schools and departments in admission, guidance and placement, program evaluation, and selection of fellowship recipients and to assist students with their transition to graduate education. |
| Field | Verbal Rank |
Quantitative Rank |
Verbal Score |
Quantitative Score |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Engineering | 4 | 1 | 468 | 721 |
| Physical Sciences | 2 | 2 | 488 | 699 |
| Business | 7 | 3 | 448 | 591 |
| Life Sciences | 5 | 4 | 464 | 580 |
| Humanities & Arts | 1 | 5 | 541 | 561 |
| Social Sciences | 3 | 6 | 485 | 559 |
| Education | 6 | 7 | 450 | 531 |
Other fields that rank higher than the Education field in either Verbal or Quantitative:
- Architecture and Environmental Design both Verbal (477) and Quantitative (613)
- Religion and Theory both Verbal (534) and Quantitative (578)
- Library and Archival Sciences both Verbal (530) and Quantitative (533)
- Communications only Verbal (470)
- Public Administration only Verbal (452)
The fields that rank lower than Education in both Verbal or Quantitative:
- Home Economics – Verbal (432) and Quantitative (490)
- Social Work – Verbal (428) and Quantitative (464)
As you can see, those applying for Graduate School in Education are at the bottom of Quantitative abilities and next to last on Verbal. And these are the people running our children’s education system. Even those so called “ignorant religious people†outscored the Education field. Now you have a better idea why our schools are in the shape they are in. The best and the brightest are elsewhere.
If we want the best and the brightest running our education system, then we need to figure out how to attract them. I know, the first answer for a lot of you people will be money. There is a whole lot more factors to attracting the best people than money. I would have to say the biggest detractor is the bureaucracy that is mandated by the states and feds. This bureaucracy is perpetuated by Big Ed so they can maintain control and force all future personnel to be indoctrinated into their system.
Let’s say you stopped the indoctrination and only hired people with work experience in the fields that ranked higher than Education and give them the freedom to do what has to be done to teach the next generation the skills required to today’s and tomorrow’s future. Many of these people have seen the change from a paper system to a computerized and automated system. They know how to succeed and adapt in the workforce and be successful. They could provide direction to our schools so that the instruction will be useful and relevant. They could take Bid Ed and turn it back into Smart Ed.
a 24 page report that spends the first half explaining how NOT to use the data. lennie obviously got a little mixed up and choose to do the opposite. follow his link and read the introduction; especially in the first 6 or 7 pages:
“Any GRE test, however, has two primary limitations: (1) it does not and cannot measure all the qualities that are important in predicting success in graduate study or in confirming undergraduate achievement…”
or
“Use Multiple Criteria. Regardless of the decision to be made, multiple sources of information should be used to ensure fairness and balance the limitations of any single measure of knowledge, skills, or abilities. These sources may include undergraduate grade point average, letters of recommendation, personal statement, samples of academic work, and professional experience related to proposed graduate study. GRE scores should not be used exclusively. Use of multiple criteria is particularly important when using GRE scores to assess the abilities of educationally disadvantaged students, students whose primary language is not English, and students who are returning to school after an extended absence. Score users are urged to become familiar with factors affecting score interpretation for these groups as discussed in this publication.”
lennie, when do you intend to address your credibility isssues relative to your family’s escapade over at d46.info. your readers keep asking me what i’m talking about, but wouldn’t they be better off hearing it from you? i’m still trying to figure out how such a fine, well-educated, christian family like yours (with such incredible resect in this community) could commit such heinous acts and still expect to be taken seriously.
WOW…I didn’t even look at that Gene Expression link!!!!
Now there’s a scarey source! And I thought Bruno was scarey!!!
Hey lennie’s readers…check the lead off from his latest source (follow his link)
(excerpt)
Numbers you’ll never see…
You know how Harper’s has those monthly lists of numbers, usually organized to produce some sort of cute political point? I was thinking that I might assemble some numbers along the same lines. Without further ado:
Average SAT score in 1999 for whites coming from families making less than $20000 per year: 983
Average SAT score in 1999 for blacks coming from families making more than $70000 per year: 956
Percentage of violent criminals in New York City who are named by their victims as either black or Hispanic: 89.2 [2]
43% of homosexual men in “Shoreland” in Chicago have had at least this many partners: 60
Transfer payment amount per native-born household due to immigration in California, in dollars: 1178 [3]
Fraction of black males who will likely be incarcerated at some point in their life: 1/3
Fraction of white males who will likely be incarcerated at some point in their life: 1/17
Percentage of the homeless who are mentally ill/alcoholics/drug addicted: 25/50/33
Number of people killed, worldwide, by Nazis: 21 million
Number of people killed, worldwide, by Communists: more than 110 million [4]
Percentage of France’s electrical power that comes from nuclear energy: 76 [5]
Number of people killed in nuclear power accidents in France: 0
I’m sure you can think of others. There are quite a few numbers on education that I might put up there.
(end of excerpt)
i especially like the part that makes the nazi’s not look so bad…and you once accused me of racism for quoting much, much milder facts. remember “if you sleep with dogs…”?
Carl,
Only a person who felt sympathy for “communists” would spin the above stats as “making Nazi’s not look so bad.” We all know they were monsters. It’s just that some of us know that Lenin & Stalin were worse killers, just as we know that collectivism (whether liberal, socialist, national socialist, or communist) is morally inferior to any system that protects individual rights.
BTW, “Collective Rights” are code for subjugating the individual. This is the true goal of “identity politics” – which I surmise you support. (since you support empowering the “government/education complex” that promotes “identity politics) But I digress….
I found things to criticize on the Gene Expression site, but your attempt to paint Lennie as a racist (just admit it) simply by posting stats (re: various GRE topics from a site with other stuff) is simply an indicator of the vendetta you seem to have against him.
As for the ‘facts’ you find so troubling. Are they false? Refutable? Are there complex factors that must be taken into account when reviewing them? THAT should be types of discussions we are having; not verbal harrassment of a group of people who simply question the wisdom of drinking the “government/education complex” kool-aid – as too many Americans clearly have.
As an aside, your comment about “how not to use the data†is a reasonable point, and deserves a response. You may disagree, but those of us who scour the internet for data & reports all notice that anytime data purport to show something negative about a liberal item of faith / sacrement (public education, day care, welfare, etc.), we almost always get an introduction that says something to the effect of “don’t use this evidence to form any conclusions that run counter to ___________.” <—place favorite liberal dogma here
Great advice, Just ignore the man behind the curtain.
In the last few decades, we have taxed and spent billions on education. Taxpayers thought they were spending the money to get the best new talent, when in fact they were just spending gobs more on the same old talent (or lack thereof); to no benefit. The GRE stats Lenny posted bear this out, and all the admonitions “not to misuse the data” won’t change the obvious.
If a 25 year-old earning $35,000 can teach a class of 25 to read as well as a $100,000 55 year-old with an edu-ma-cation masters degree, a school board has an obligation to the taxpayer to hire that person. Better yet, if funding followed CHILDREN instead of “districts”, “systems”, and interest groups, we could all make our own choices about how to educate our kids. (what a radical notion!!)
I challenge you to tell me how Mr. Andersen’s and Mr. Ryan’s (Sauk Village) sick day payouts added to “the childrens’” education. (Hit me with the “every Superintendent has that clause in his contract” argument, and you’ve just proven me right on virtually all my critiques of “BIG – FAT – 7th out of 7 – ED”)
…and the sick days clauses are only one tiny example.
Oops.
HTML codes erased part of my last post. Here is the rest..
Great advice, Just ignore the man behind the curtain.
In the last few decades, we have taxed and spent billions on education. Taxpayers thought they were spending the money to get the best new talent, when in fact they were just spending gobs more on the same old talent (or lack thereof); to no benefit. The GRE stats Lenny posted bear this out, and all the admonitions “not to misuse the data” won’t change the obvious.
If a 25 year-old earning $35,000 can teach a class of 25 to read as well as a $100,000 55 year-old with an edu-ma-cation masters degree, a school board has an obligation to the taxpayer to hire that person. Better yet, if funding followed CHILDREN instead of “districts”, “systems”, and interest groups, we could all make our own choices about how to educate our kids. (what a radical notion!!)
I challenge you to tell me how Mr. Andersen’s and Mr. Ryan’s (Sauk Village) sick day payouts added to “the childrens’” education. (Hit me with the “every Superintendent has that clause in his contract” argument, and you’ve just proven me right on virtually all my critiques of “BIG – FAT – 7th out of 7 – ED”)
…and the sick days clauses are only one tiny example.
we have no $100k teachers in CCSD46
lennie accused me of being a racist for quoting similar, yet much milder statistics in context
it was the source lennie quoted itself that included the caveat “not to misuse the data”
do you really condone lennie and wifes misbehavior over at d46.info?
since you favor the multiple post…by the way, if the sick days and anderson’s bonus/retirement are only one tiny example, please show me some others in CCSD46; i’ve been asking lennie for months to no avail. be sure to include the most recent waste defending against your pro-bono frivolity with the ethics commission.
(are you lennie’s dad? can’t he speak for himself?)
Carl,
Lennie does a fine job speaking for himself, but I understand if he is loathe to engage you, given your animosity toward each other.
Perhaps if you went bowling and talked it all out. Life’s too short to be bitter.
____
Re: $100K… OK, the point still stands with an 80K or 70K figure. I also will continue to question social workers & psychologists working for schools. It’s feather bedding and outside the scope education. Is there a problem? Send them to a private practitioner.
You know as well as I do that the entire Special Ed, Psyche, Social Worker brigade has much more to do with payroll padding than with meeting community needs. One wonders how any of us 40 somethings got through life without all these people sucking down 40, 50, 60, 70K +++ / year. Send them into private practice or Starbucks.
As an aside, why should all D46 taxpayers subsidize Pre-K daycare?
___
Now, it is just as easy to argue that voters approved these things, so there is nothing “wrong” with them, on the surface. This is true on one level, but goes a long way toward pointing out how badly the system has gone awry.
Too many people paid too little attention for too long. This would have gone on longer, but the “parasite (Big Ed) stopped living in harmony with its host (the taxpayer)” [credit to Spock from the original Star Trek]
I’m preparing an essay on my site that argues that “legal corruption” – gamed pension scams, insider contracts, Ethics laws that guarantee no consequences (for either party – but especially the district), a PTELL law that allows a putative $5 million referendum to raise $27 million (and a former Superintendent “consulting” on how to ream taxpayers using this scam)…
are all far worse than “illegal corruption” like Mayor Pig’s Truck scandal – which is a drop in the bucket.
____
If it’s ok for folks like you to argue FOR this status quo, it’s also OK for people like me and Lennie to argue against it.
I prefer a world where people are buying “education”, not bureaucracy and compensation shemes.
D46 has an operational expense of $8,482/student. If we could give YOU 20 of them and $160,000, you could buy/rent a location, get some computers & equipment, contract for some janitorial services, get a few parent voluteers, promise to meet NCLBs AYP, and keep what ever you didn’t spend as income.
If you keep your promise, your contract is renewed. We’ll give Lenny the same option, and you guys can compete in THAT arena. As you lower your prices through enhanced competition & innovation, the parents can place the difference between $8,400 and the new $6,500 price in a tax-advantaged “Education Savings Account” for their kids’ college.
How cool is that? Look Ma – no Assistant Superintendants, Coordinators, Superintendents, Guidance Counselors, etc. etc.
Radical? Compared to the current ossified, overbuilt, overstaffed and politically protected education industry…you bet it’s radical. Radically better.
We won’t get there right away, but the current system, with its greed & institutionalized sense of entitlement, has given me (& many others) the best opportunity in a long time to point to a better way.
___
BTW – younger teachers out there… If you are truly interested in teaching, in lighting up minds, ask yourself if you aren’t better served by the open system I describe above. Let go of the “union jobber” mentality that pervades your industry. Let go of the idea that we need a cadre of “change agents” (code for thought police) for Dewey’s nightmare.
Be Entrepreneurial role models for the next generation instead.
You have nothing to lose but your chains – the preceding (& current) generation already raided your pensions & benefits..
Carl,
I was having so much fun, I forgot to address your other points.
1. lennie accused me of being a racist for quoting similar, yet much milder statistics in context
Bruno writes:
I don’t know of what you speak, but I’ll take it as a given that neither you nor Lennie are racists. Perhaps a mutual apology is in order. (do that bowling thing)
2. it was the source lennie quoted itself that included the caveat “not to misuse the dataâ€
Bruno writes:
OK fine, I submit that drawing an inference about the quality of Ed school applicants, based upon comparisons to other post-graduate domains is NOT a misuse of the data. There is more evidence (anecdotal & scientific) to back this up.
3. do you really condone lennie and wifes misbehavior over at d46.info?
Bruno writes:
Since I don’t really know of what you speak, other than the use of multiple identities, I’m not qualified to comment. I’ve met Lennie through the Ethics hearing, and he seems like a nice guy. Maybe I’m wrong. However, I DO know that the social climate is pretty ugly for anyone who goes against “BIG ED” Dogma.
Frankly, anyone who says that people who are against referenda (or the current structure of the Education INDUSTRY) are “against the children” or “against education” are either rank propagandists, jerks, or just plain stupid. Most of us care deeply about the quality of our schools, the educational attainment of our (and your) children, and the future of our society.
The fact that we don’t equate rampant taxation & spending with any of those societal benefits in no way makes us bad people. Do we pose a threat to the status quo? Yes. Some one has to. The status quo is unsustainable and unacceptable.
If you want to argue that we are wrong, go nuts. It’s still a free country. But forgive some of us if we use mechanisms to keep anonymity. The social pressure of the ‘pro-spending’ thought police is pretty oppressive.
For my part, I tell everyone I can to be open, up front, and verbally aggressive. Keeping anonymous and/or quiet only empowers “your” side. We know the Emperor has no clothes, we should say it. The “political correctness” intended to keep us silent needs to be reversed.
4. if the sick days and anderson’s bonus/retirement are only one tiny example, please show me some others in CCSD46; i’ve been asking lennie for months to no avail. be sure to include the most recent waste defending against your pro-bono frivolity with the ethics commission.
Bruno writes:
You may consider the previous post my answer. The waste is intertwined in the entire system, and D46 is a “franchise” of a far bigger entity. It may actually be better run than others, but change has to start somewhere.
As for the ethics hearing expense…
when politically protected government institutions stop using taxpayer funds to promote the increased extraction of taxpayer funds, ethics complaints will disappear. Until that time, I intend to work to INCREASE their frequency.
These are the comments from the thread in question (http://stopblackmail.com/index.php?p=58).
“#
Racial/Ethnic Background: IL
White: 58.3%
Black: 21.1%
Hispanic: 16.9%
Asian/Pacific Islander: 3.5%
American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.2%
Racial/Ethnic Background: Indiana
White: 82.2%
Black: 12.2%
Hispanic: 4.3%
Asian/Pacific Islander: 1.0%
American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.3%
Comment by carl — 4/17/2005 @ 11:21 am | Edit This
#
now look at any report card and see how the test scores come in by racial/ethnic background…that’s why these extractions are so out of context, and quite frankly, meaningless…more importantly, where’s the data for D46? isn’t that the basis of this whole argument? nobody i know would say the system isn’t broken; where we disagree is on a funding vs. spending problem in D46 and getting OUR bang for the buck!
Comment by carl — 4/17/2005 @ 11:40 am | Edit This
#
Carl, why are we looking at echnicity? Are you saying that kids of different races can’t learn the same? I hope I’m wrong about that. Could you please explain your point further.
In this instance we are looking at the State of Illinois not District 46. We are trying to discuss how the System has a whole should work. We are discussing whether HB 750 or another state funding plan is needed. We are looking at the big picture here.
Comment by Lennie — 4/17/2005 @ 2:52 pm | Edit This
#
first…i didn’t say that different races can’t learn the same. i said they don’t test the same, and as such, a population with more diversity might not test as well as one less diverse. it’s obvious by looking at test scores. big picture/small picture…your comparisons relative to learning outcomes are skewed. so yeah…my point is relative to the big picture.
i guess now that you deafeated the referendum, and CCSD 46 is totally screwed, and the anti-tax four are ALL saying they never said we didn’t need a tax increase before they even get sworn in, you can just move on to the next victim and leave us in ruin? do you care what happens locally in the short term or not, lennie?
Comment by carl — 4/17/2005 @ 4:43 pm | Edit This
#
I’m sorry, but you can’t really be serious that different races test scores are different. All races are just as capable of learning and scoring just as well on standardized tests. I think you need to go read this article about a Rockford school. I blogged about this in Feb. on my other site.
As for District 46, I have not ruined them. Their administration and teacher’s unions are to blame. I am waiting for the new board to be seated and give them a chance to work to correct the situation. I am not hounding them with suggestions and “I told you so”. I am going to allow them to do the job they have been elected to do. When they ask for help, I will be available as my time permits. Until then, I am prioritizing my time towards the big picture.
I am focusing my efforts on this huge tax increase proposed by the state currently, because it does affect District 46 and every other district in the state. It is also being heavily supported by those that lost the election and other groups across the state. I know you this there is a discussion taking place on D46 Info board about it now. Also, the board for all its talk of being unbiased is using its webpages to support this effort by advertising the rally at Springfield for it. Do you think the D46 Info page would let me advertise a group going to Springfield against the bill? Of course they won’t. You and I both know that site is biased.
Comment by Lennie — 4/17/2005 @ 5:21 pm | Edit This
#
look at any district report card…start with ccsd46
Comment by carl baker — 4/17/2005 @ 6:40 pm | Edit This
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I didn’t ask for the District 46 report card. I asked do you really believe other races cannot preform as well on tests?
Comment by Lennie — 4/17/2005 @ 7:16 pm | Edit This
#
don’t be an idiot…of course not. but u reported a comparison of learning outcomes, and unfortunately the fact is, diversity has an effect…just look at any report card. what’s possible, what should be, and WHAT IS are 3 different things. i didn’t make up the stats…you just choose to ignore them if it suits you…or should i say as you deem appropriate?
Comment by carl — 4/18/2005 @ 6:04 am | Edit This”
good boy lennie…good boy. did bruno say speak?
now answer for your families action on the d46.info board and maybe someone can take you seriously!
“Re: $100K… OK, the point still stands with an 80K or 70K figure.”
maybe a dozen in CCSD46. do you know them? i do. do you have any idea what they’ve given this community over the years? besides, that’s a dozen out of the list of hundreds.
“I also will continue to question social workers & psychologists working for schools. It’s feather bedding and outside the scope education. Is there a problem? Send them to a private practitioner.”
quite often legal beagles like yourself sue the district frivolously and students are sent to the private sector; at district expense. it’s called early intervention and cost effective. by the way, the difference between the legal beagles i speak of here and you is that they actually win their cases from time to time.
“BTW – younger teachers out there… If you are truly interested in teaching, in lighting up minds, ask yourself if you aren’t better served by the open system I describe above.”
why would anyone spend the time, effort and money to prepare themselves for this occupation at $35k per year?
“if the sick days and anderson’s bonus/retirement are only one tiny example, please show me some others in CCSD46; i’ve been asking lennie for months to no avail. be sure to include the most recent waste defending against your pro-bono frivolity with the ethics commission.
Bruno writes:
You may consider the previous post my answer. The waste is intertwined in the entire system, and D46 is a “franchise†of a far bigger entity. It may actually be better run than others, but change has to start somewhere.”
pretty lame. i’ve been saying all along that i feel CCSD46 is pretty well run considering the circumstances, but at your behest (see page one of your website on a negative campaing) all lennie spews is rhetoric on waste and mismanagement HERE. just show me; that’s all.
bruno, you have some wonderful idealyc notions and plans. my kids are in school today. get real. i need to be. i was getting a good bang for my buck (albiet quite a few of them, but a good bang none the less) until people like you, lennie and oakley crashed the party. now the system and my property are pretty worthless; and i still pay the tax. thanks loads
lennie,
ok…sit boy…
do you also have the transcript of all the destructive rhetoric you and your wife posted over at the d46.info board? that might clear up all my questions (and KEVIN’s) if you reposted that drivel. plus, then bruno could see your fine work and really be proud of his pet. got the nerve?
ok…roll over…play dead
Carl,
Ask Grace for the transcript. D46.ino is her site.
Carl, CJB, I would love to see you debate Bruno. Let’s set it up. When do you want it scheduled?
good boy lennie…good boy. still lurking over at the other site. just make sure you pee outside this time. good boy lennie.
so, why do you think we should take you seriously after your little escapade over at d46.info? do you really think you and your wife were acting in the christian manner you purport to live your lives? was your cowpie post really appropriate? why did you let your wife take the rap for you without ever saying a word? shouldn’t you be even a little ashamed?
answer a question before you ask one lennie.
your wife has transcripts…shes not afraid to post them…did she ask you if that was ok lennie?
Carl,
I notice that you snidely attack Lennie as some one who takes orders and “parrots” what other people say. Yet you parrot every spoon fed line from your BIG ED myth machine.
Yes, cutailing big dollars for fat Administrative sick days and bigger dollars for salary increases is going to make “your property worthless”. What a crock. What truly frightens the “old regime” is that a new board might come in, reduce spending (or its absurd rate of growth) and show improvement in outcomes as well.
I just checked the NIU site…
http://iirc.niu.edu/scripts/district.asp?districtID=340490460&test=all
http://iirc.niu.edu/scripts/mytables.asp?districtID=340490460&categoryID=cat4&subCatID=subCat1&level=D
I notice that the “Instructional Expenditure” went up 46% over 4 years (end of 2001 thru end of 04) while student population went up 18 % or so.
________
Above, you commented that my notions are “idyllic” but that you need good schooling now. “Balanced Literacy” isn’t “good schooling. Rather, it borders on educational malpractice – which would be a cause of action in a just world. My goals, aren’t idyllic, they are ideal.
You’d get to choose your schools, and I’d get to choose mine. Bad schools would die on the vine (as they should) and good schools would thrive. We’d get to that “ideal” situation sooner if more Carls of the world stopped drinking the PTO kool-aid.
____
You also posted a comment that teachers wouldn’t support a system (or spend years studying) to earn $35,000 per year. That was a clever bait & switch, but the readers should know that the “$35,000″ reference was to an entry level teacher.
The scenario that I think every “professional” (as opposed to “union shop drone”) teacher should support is a system that allows them to compete in the open market, and make a very good income. Let me RE-POST it below.
___
Bruno’s scenario…
“I prefer a world where people are buying “education”, not bureaucracy and compensation shemes.
D46 has an operational expense of $8,482/student. If we could give YOU 20 of them and $160,000, you could buy/rent a location, get some computers & equipment, contract for some janitorial services, get a few parent voluteers, promise to meet NCLBs AYP, and keep what ever you didn’t spend as income.
If you keep your promise, your contract is renewed. We’ll give Lenny the same option, and you guys can compete in THAT arena. As you lower your prices through enhanced competition & innovation, the parents can place the difference between $8,400 and the new $6,500 price in a tax-advantaged “Education Savings Account†for their kids’ college.
How cool is that? Look Ma – no Assistant Superintendants, Coordinators, Superintendents, Guidance Counselors, etc. etc.
____
If and educated populace is your goal, there is no intellctually sound argument agaisnt parental choice in education.
bruno wrote:
“If a 25 year-old earning $35,000 can teach a class of 25 to read as well as a $100,000 55 year-old with an edu-ma-cation masters degree, a school board has an obligation to the taxpayer to hire that person.”
bruno also wrote:
“You also posted a comment that teachers wouldn’t support a system (or spend years studying) to earn $35,000 per year. That was a clever bait & switch, but the readers should know that the “$35,000″ reference was to an entry level teacher.”
i know the $70k teachers in CCSD46 and they are worth every dime and more. the comment does not apply to CCSD46.
bruno wrote:
“D46 has an operational expense of $8,482/student. If we could give YOU 20 of them and $160,000, you could buy/rent a location, get some computers & equipment, contract for some janitorial services, get a few parent voluteers, promise to meet NCLBs AYP, and keep what ever you didn’t spend as income.”
you forgot some very important expenses like insurance to cover the frivolous lawsuits filed by entities like yourself. also, there are some very basic legal requirements for employees and student/QUALIFIED teacher ratios mandated through DCFS that can’t be satisfied with volunteers. taking the balance as income wouldn’t scratch the surface for me, bruno.
your choice can come from where you choose to live. if you choose CCSD46, you choose a bedroom community where infrastructure is paid through property tax. you choose a community that had a well run, cost effective school system until outsiders like yourself chose to tear it down without even knowing the public it served.
lennie wants you and i to debate these issues. when you can exhibit an even basic knowledge of the specifics in CCSD46 and it’s personnel and show how your “ideal” system will serve my children TODAY (literally, because that’s when i need it), we can talk. from this point forward, if you really want to engage me, comment on CCSD46 specifics. otherwise, i’ll pass.
so one more time i ask lennie…where was the mismanagement and waste in CCSD46? and remember, oakley and bruno lost, so that doesn’t count anymore. bruno, really, let the mouse speak for himself. if i wanted your opinion i’d ask at your blog. lennie has legitimate personal experience with CCSD46.
“
“lennie has legitimate personal experience with CCSD46″, thanks Carl. I’m touched.
You seem to want to limit a debate only to items of your choosing. They have to be so specific that it won’t be a debate. Education and how it is funded is specific to all districts across the state once the money is given to them. How the money is divvied up by the state and what ramifications of how other districts spend their money also has an effect on CCSD 46. You can’t take those out of the debate.
If you want to limit the spending to only CCSD 46 expenditures, you are not really trying to have a debate on education. You are only debating over spending practices. Spending inside CCSD 46 is not all of the education system. If you believe it is, then are sorely misguided. Maybe that is why you and many others believe throwing more money at the district will fix all the problems.
Carl, “you choose a community that had a well run, cost effective school system until outsiders like yourself chose to tear it down without even knowing the public it served.”
I live here. I am not an outsider. The system was very fragile if I was able to tear it down with a single website started approximately 2 weeks before the referendum vote. Besides, if it is so cost effective, why the need for large amount for the referendum?
Carl, “lennie wants you and i to debate these issues. ” Carl, I asked you when you wanted to schedule the debate that you volunteered for. ” i, too would love to take on bruno” as your CJB on d46.info. You wanted to debate then. What changed, are you afraid of getting publicly embarrassed by Bruno? I guess that means you surrender and Bruno wins by default.
Carl, “so one more time i ask lennie…where was the mismanagement and waste in CCSD46?†Patience is a virtue.
Carl, “you forgot some very important expenses like insurance to cover the frivolous lawsuits filed by entities like yourself. also, there are some very basic legal requirements for employees and student/QUALIFIED teacher ratios mandated through DCFS that can’t be satisfied with volunteers. taking the balance as income wouldn’t scratch the surface for me, bruno.â€
You are making switching the argument again Carl. Bruno’s argument was “give YOU 20 of them and $160,000â€. You, means you are the only employee unless you choose to hire someone to help you. That is your choice with the $160,000. If you spend it all hiring too many employees that is your choice. Are 20 kids too many for 1 teacher to you Carl? If so, why? I believe I could teach 20 kids easily and they would outscore those in CCSD 46 and other public schools easily. Want to give it a try?
Ode to Public Education – the results…owed to public education.
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There once was a pretty good student, who sat in a pretty good class and was taught by a pretty good teacher who always let pretty good pass.
He wasn’t terrific at reading, he wasn’t a whizbang at math. But for him, education was leading straight down a pretty good path.
He didn’t find school too exciting, but he wanted to do pretty well, and he did have some trouble with writing, and no one had taught him to spell.
When doing arithmetic problems, pretty good was regarded as fine. Five plus five needn’t always add up to be 10, a pretty good answer was nine.
The pretty good class that he sat in was part of a pretty good school. And the student was not an exception, to the contrary, he was the rule.
The pretty good school that he went to was there in a pretty good town. And nobody there seemed to notice that he couldn’t tell a verb from a noun.
The pretty good student in fact was part of the pretty good mob, and the first time he knew what he lacked was when he looked for a pretty good job.
It was then, when he sought a position, he discovered that life could be tough. And he soon had a sneaky suspicion that pretty good was not good enough.
The pretty good town in our story was part of a pretty good state, which had pretty good aspirations, and prayed for a pretty good fate.
There once was a pretty good nation, pretty proud of the greatness it had, which learned much too late, if you want to be great, pretty good is, in fact, pretty bad.
“The Osgood File” copyright 1986, CBS Inc.